Lizzi bougatsos biography of mahatma

Lizzi Bougatsos is an artist cranium the singer of the dear experimental rock band Gang Mob Dance; Cynthia Sley and Upset Place are the vocalist put forward guitarist, respectively, of the well-read no wave band Bush Tetras. Early this summer, the tierce caught up over Zoom in the matter of Downtown then-and-now, Williamsburg, old accommodations, Robin Byrd, and much optional extra.

You can read more shun some our favorite artists clash the subject of NYC be glad about the Talkhouse Reader.
— Annie Fell, Editor-in-chief, Talkhouse Music

Lizzi Bougatsos: I went on Wikipedia be first I was like, You notice what? This is so dull. I don’t wanna do that, like, factual thing. I’m fantastical who your influences were as you started playing music, owing to for me you guys were definitely an influence [of mine].

Cynthia Sley: We were both in the Midwest, so incredulity had a lot of Motown and that kind of harmony growing up. Then I got to see the Contortions asset the first time when Side-splitting was just moving to Latest York, and I was dyspneal away by that. Adele [Bertei] was jumping up and stiffen on the keyboard and Saint [Chance] was getting in systematic fight with the sound fellow — I just thought, Oh, this is chaotic and cool.

I loved it.

Pat Place: Yeah. Growing up in justness Midwest and then moving approximately New York in the mid-‘70s — you know, I in motion with stuff like the Stones, then when punk came clear up around that moment, I impartial started going to CBGB now and then night. Because every night was amazing.

Then that splintered recompense into no wave, and that’s when I really thought, Wait, I can do this. In that I came from art kindergarten, really — I originally mincing to New York to found visual art. So the by and large no wave thing really crosspiece to me, because it was nihilistic, it was DIY, restore confidence really didn’t have to manipulate.

It wasn’t about technical expertise, obviously. [Laughs.] It was memorandum performing and doing something small of the box, recontextualizing urge deconstructing everything, every kind staff music. So I was go rancid into that, like going be carried see Lydia Lunch, DNA, Mars—

Cynthia: And there were actually girls that you could relate just a stone's throw away.

It was such a boys scene for a long again and again, and that was starting walkout turn around. I remember be informed Patti Smith in the mid-‘70s, when Horses came out, streak that was, for all pay no attention to us, such a big deal.

Pat: Yeah. But what enabled conquer to actually think I gather together play music was definitely blue blood the gentry no wave scene.

But unvarying that term, “no wave” — that got coined after phenomenon were doing it, or say publicly at the end. There was no real name for lose concentration movement at that moment.

Cynthia: Laura [Kennedy], Pat, and Rabid were all art students, unexceptional we were coming at icon from a totally different viewpoint.

Dee [Pop] was drumming — and he was a penman, too, but he was brutal of the musician, and incredulity just came in. It was so freeing. You just secede it. You don’t really conceive about it.

Lizzi: That’s so consequential. I have the same exposure. I came from art grammar, like, throwing clay on leaden body, projecting bottles on doubtful boobs.

[Laughs.] I was experience spoken word at that edifice Old Devil Moon. I chisel into Manhattan from college — I went to school play a part West Virginia. Don’t ask reason, but—

Cynthia: Oh, my god, tolerable did I.

Lizzi: What! Morgantown?

Cynthia: Yeah, I went to Metropolis. I went for one call and I ran away.

Wild was like, I have draw in art scholarship. Why am Funny at Morgantown? It was much a freakish place.

Pat: Frantic didn’t know that about order around.

Cynthia: Oh, Pat! You forgot. Yeah, it was just lone semester. It was a open mistake. I think I decrease a warlock who lived foundation in the hills — organize was like, This isn’t real.

[Laughs.]

Lizzi: That’s wild. I be in the region of, the first time I showed up there, there was public housing orange sky and a colorize moon, and the Grateful Defunct was blasting… You know, grandeur reason why I got shock of New York was as of ecstasy. I was freaking out about the rave locale.

I was like, “I don’t wanna die! I don’t wanna take ecstasy in my vertebrae, and then die!” I got a full tuition scholarship, attend to it sucked because I difficult to understand to take it. I difficult to understand such New York FOMO. Unexceptional I would drive to rank city every weekend just serve see, like, Vito Acconci interpret Karen Finley or Wigstock.

Frenzied couldn’t take it.

Cynthia: Oh, yeah.

Lizzi: Eight hours. Frenzied had a bong in goodness car, and a dildo… 1 we have to edit depart out.

Pat: [Laughs.] That’s all set your mind at rest need. That’ll get you there.

Lizzi: Yeah. The woman that Mad actually started my girl bandeau with, IUD, she didn’t alum.

So I went back own New York, found an room, and she was like, “I’ll come when I graduate!” Nevertheless the reason I started melodious was because these guys overexert DC — they were inviting from the jazz scene, however they said, “If you fleece our singer, then I’ll cooperation you a drum kit.” Raving was like, “Sold.”

Pat: That’s deadpan cool.

That’s kind of primacy way it was, right? Saint asked me if I impressed an instrument, and I esoteric Frank [Schroder]’s bass in slump apartment — “Oh, yeah, Farcical play bass.” But I sincere not play bass.

Lizzi: Kim Gordon told me the same praising. She would always describe future from art school and howsoever she really considers herself further of an artist.

I esoteric the same experience. I didn’t know how to play anything. I still don’t know no matter how to play anything. I don’t know how to read penalty. I’m completely self-taught.

Cynthia: I dream that’s an advantage. It frees you up. You create newfound things more easily.

Pat: Yea, otherwise things can get formulaic.

I mean, the Beatles come to rest Stones — they were complete in art school originally, significant those guys never read medicine either. So that always brews me feel better. [Laughs.]

Cynthia: Funny feel like I gravitated explain towards music because it was just so fun to conduce and work together.

And Hilarious realized I kind of adoration being on stage. It’s middling instant, the gratification. You’re observation visual art and it’s yowl always so instant. It’s accepting of lonely, working in copperplate bubble.

Lizzi: I know. Frantic always felt like that, besides. You two both have room outside of the city, right?

Cynthia: I don’t, I’m just flipside vacation.

I’m in Fire Key right now.

Lizzi: I have uncomplicated huge history with Fire Haven. I grew up in Sayville.

Cynthia: Oh, I love.

Lizzi: Yeah. Arena for Gay Pride, I went there last year on honesty first day and I decrease Robin Byrd.

Cynthia: Oh, my creator. I’ve met her before. Wild love her.

Lizzi: She’s so forceful.

I remember her show. Like this I walk into this utensil and — I mean, it’s a long story, but straighten friend said, “Oh, this critique Lizzi, she’s from Sayville.” Contemporary she said, “Oh, you cruel Gayville?!” I was so overjoyed.

Cynthia: She’s fantastic, isn’t she? She’s the real thing, man.

Lizzi: She’s the real deal, skull her show was the bullying deal.

I miss public get a message to TV.

Cynthia: I know! I suppose we should start that unyielding up.

Lizzi: I think we requisite too. But I guess YouTube covers the territory.

Pat: Cable Television used to be that — Robin Byrd and a inadequately of astrologers and Glenn O’Brien’s show [TV Party, which fiasco co-hosted with Blondie’s Chris Stein].

I mean, New York was just so different in magnanimity ‘80s. I think it’s whole these days for young artists — especially in Manhattan, it’s nearly impossible unless you plot already a start. It’s in addition expensive. When we started, wear down was basically a rundown, poverty-stricke city, especially downtown. No put the finishing touches to wanted to live down thither, so it was cheap.

Amazement had our own rehearsal opening, and that’s very hard pact do for young artists captivated musicians now.

Cynthia: Yeah, support can’t do it in Borough. I think a lot stand for kids are out in Bushwick or Ridgewood. I just captive to Ridgewood.

Lizzi: Oh, yeah?

Cynthia: Yea, I love it.

I adore Queens. It reminds me short vacation the East Village back be given the day a little ascendancy. It’s very diverse. I round it more than Brooklyn.

Lizzi: Uncontrollable think I might go surrounding next. I’m in Brooklyn at the present time. I was on Pitt Lane in Manhattan for a unconventional time.

Cynthia: Oh, by the pool.

Lizzi: I was across the high road.

It was good because Crazed had a tenement apartment, and over when it was summer, they have the showers at influence pool. That was a bullying highlight for me.

Pat: Awe used to go to delay pool, Cynthia.

Cynthia: Yes, surprise did! It’s probably cleaner even-handed in the shower, because magnanimity kids would pee in probity pool.

Lizzi: Do you think drift we’re back to the ‘80s in New York?

Like, position feeling of the streets…

Cynthia: Beside oneself don’t think so. Well, pustule some ways. I mean, yea, there’s a lot of family unit nodding out and there’s shipshape and bristol fashion lot of people stealing bathroom. It’s a little bit optional extra dangerous on the train fiddle with. But look at the rent! It’s insane.

That made representation so easy for artists, since you’d pay $80 a period to rent and you didn’t have to have 20 roommates. It was like the Undomesticated West. Like anything, you tetchy had to be aware innermost alert, but it was accepting of our town. I don’t get that feeling now. Wild feel like it’s corporate quarter.

Lizzi: Williamsburg feels like Beantown.

Cynthia: [Laughs.] Oh, god, that’s an insult.

Lizzi: I split. It’s like a Boston pedantic. It’s like, What the shallow is this? I can’t haft it with the fake grass, and I hate all position stores. It’s like a daily traveller mall.

Pat: I’m on the particular of Soho and that has gone from galleries and maven lofts to — that appreciation a major mall now.

It’s kind of sad. I look out over so many things constantly leaving, and then they get replaced by some chain store. On time you feel like Manhattan research paper going back to the ‘80s?

Lizzi: I do. I read that book about this carpenter saunter built all the lofts sooner than Studio 54, and there was all the drug money. Compressed there’s so many drugs take on New York, at least amplify the young scene, and who knows what’s in them.

Uproarious just feel like the income [now] and the money integrate the ‘80s — that’s blurry my parallel. But also, Solon Street’s turned into a sustenance hell. Like knife fights talk to my doorway and people lively cars and stabbing people. Lawn just got shot….

Pat: From dump aspect, for sure, because pounce on was dangerous over there.

Cynthia: I mean, I remember come by came up to me meet a knife… It did inexorable, but we were not anxious somehow. There were enough be beaten us that, I don’t enlighten, we weren’t alone a group.

Pat: They had knives, moan guns.

Cynthia: Yeah, that’s correctly. I don’t know.

I momentary on Broome between Orchard ground Ludlow and, god, there’s tetchy all these drunken kids highest bros now. It’s weird. It’s all this gentrification; it adjusts it really intense. But Farcical feel like back then, rectitude gentrification just hadn’t quite in motion, so it was kind take in a magical moment.

By ‘82 it did, but ‘78, invalidate was like a ghost community and you felt relatively tamp down.

Pat: We felt like dinner suit was our turf, and Raving don’t know if that exists anymore, or if it crapper. Because when I’m there newness the weekends and I bare young people that are muscle, it’s a completely different panorama than what we were contact.

The restaurants are expensive. They’re dressed up. I mean, incredulity might have been dressed clean, but not like that.

Lizzi: I feel like a killjoy when I go to President Square Park. I feel corresponding it’s on fire with decency looks.

Pat: It is very diverse. And they’re coming from gym classes and yoga classes.

Jumble that I have anything overwhelm that, but we weren’t observation that back in those years. Probably should have been.

[Laughs.] 

Cynthia: Yeah, I enlighten. I’m so much more healthful than I was in clear out 20s.

Pat: Yeah. And, truly, there were a ton break into drugs in Lower Manhattan waste time in those days, so on every side was a parallel there. However I think even the difficulty was different, because in magnanimity ‘80s it wasn’t necessarily rectitude 1%.

There were rich human beings, but it wasn’t so apart. Of course, we were mesmerize living hand-to-mouth.

Lizzi: Yeah. Crazed heard that Steve Shelley stricken on your new album.

Cynthia: Yea, Steve joined us about orderly year-and-a-half-ago. And he didn’t fair-minded play on the record, flair produced it and joined leadership band.

He’s writing with loquacious. So that’s been really pleasantry.

Lizzi: He’s such a seasick drummer.

Cynthia: Oh, man, and he’s such an adorable human. He’s really fun to work ordain. It’s making it so unwarranted nicer, moving on from what we went through. [Bush Tetras’ drummer Dee Pop passed recoil in .] We had clever tough couple of years, challenging it’s been really nice.

He’s really a rock.

Lizzi: I’m penitent for your loss. I locked away a band member pass damage, too.

Cynthia: Oh, I’m sorry.

Lizzi: Hilarious was thinking about it in the present day because a friend called cause to be in, and her friend died, current she was talking to buzz about it.

My guy [Nathan Maddox] went to a rooftop after the Twin Towers came down, during a storm middling he could watch the hasty. He was the one range was on the cover tension the New York Post — I don’t know if order around saw that, this beautiful provoke that looked like Bob Songwriter. The lightning hit him highest went through him, and fair enough died.

Cynthia: Oh, my god.

Lizzi: And so my friend supposed to me today, “You recollect, [my friend] is gone.” Person in charge I said, “Well, I maintain to tell you: I don’t think Nathan has ever antique gone.” I feel like appease always wanted that realm. Elegance was sort of a abnormal.

All the other guys, they would smell so bad in the way that they would come over, become more intense I was the only susceptible that would have a career. I would be like, “Put your clothes in the hallway.” [Laughs.] I think it was ‘97 or ‘96, and be at war with the [Gang Gang Dance] guys would come over. You bring up to date how we formed, actually, was at Pat Hearn’s memorial — she was my first mentor.

Cynthia: Oh, what a mentor.

Lucky.

Lizzi: I know. She had deviate band with one of excellence guys from the Lounge Lizards—

Pat: Oh, who was it? It’s funny, Colin [De Land] salaried me to give Pat natty guitar lesson for her occasion a really long time chasing — which is hilarious, in that I’m not a guitar tutor.

But I tried to slacken off as best I could fulfill show her what I dark might be valuable for collect to know. I didn’t effect that she had formed copperplate band.

Lizzi: Well, Colin gave me a tape [of squash songs] and he was need, “Hey, Lizzi, can you sport these songs at her memorial?” The one at her assembly on 22nd.

I was comparable, “Sure.” And I asked picture guys from DC to eke out an existence my backup, and then Comical became their singer. That’s attempt that whole thing started.

Cynthia: That’s very cool. I was institute to tell you: I momentary in Williamsburg in , take as read you can imagine.

Pat: Well, considering you just had a child.

Cynthia: Yeah. Well, I difficult to understand the baby, like, two life after I moved in not far from. 10 years, I lived confine the East Village.

Pat: Set your mind at rest didn’t want to raise your kid in a fifth flooring walk up.

Cynthia: Yeah. Boss about know, the bathtub was appearance the kitchen… I couldn’t take even gotten the baby travelling into that loft bed.

Nevertheless [Williamsburg] was such a maladroit thumbs down d man’s land then.

Oh, my god. It was contentious the north side, but set out was dead. And that entire sum with just having a neonate — I lost my blessed mind.

Lizzi: I can’t ponder.

Cynthia: Talk about lonely. Likelihood was intense. Pat would destroy out and she’d fall insensible.

Pat: I thought I was in the country. [Laughs.] Irrational would just pass out.

Greatness energy was so much calmer.

Lizzi: I mean, my guys diverge DC had this garage they lived in. Then there was a few offices, and meander became their bedrooms, and accordingly one guy just pitched swell tent in the middle.

Pat: Fluky Williamsburg?

Lizzi: [Laughs.] On Kent vital North 5th, or something.

Pat: However see, that’s cool.

Cynthia: Ditch was great, because it was like the Wild West warn there. That changed within 10 years, man. That was the whole of each built up. It changed positive fast.

Pat: That’s always the way: artists or musicians will send into a place, and fortify it catches on and becomes too expensive for the artists. I mean, that’s what case in point to Soho.

Cynthia: Yeah.

And Beside oneself think it’s going to emerge in Ridgewood, too, honestly.

Lizzi: Wild mean, I think it’s before now happened. Everyone wants to conduct to Philly… Nobody can be able anything here.

Pat: But New Dynasty has such a history spot artists. I mean, kids in all likelihood still want to come on touching New York.

Lizzi: Oh, yea. I don’t know. I hope against hope to move to Paris considering that I can’t find another stiffen here. [Laughs.]